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philnum

(Mitglied)

Here is a picture of a Michel #10Aa and the overprint looks much more dark (nearly black) than yours. Here we have some Michel #10Bd and the color of these overprints seems to be different to your one, too.

The position of the "Richter"-sign would be right for a rouletted used example. It does not make sense in this way, even when you believe in "own rules" of Richter. By the way: These rules were not made by the BPP, they were developed long before.
23.10.11, 02:00:00

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 23.10.11, 14:42:47

Zitat von philnum:


The position of the "Richter"-sign would be right for a rouletted used example. It does not make sense in this way, even when you believe in "own rules" of Richter.



Yes, you've got absolutely right, this thing confused me much. So I decided to make a small investigation. Firstly, I checked the sizes of the stamp. If it was made from rouletted one the sizes should be different (smaller) than basic stamp (in this case 2 A), unfortunately not. The sizes and perforations are the same 1:1 as on basic stamp MiNr. 2A.
Secondly I've checked the gum, if it's regummed it will be visible (original gum structure is similar to honeycomb in larger magnification) and again the answer is no. The gum is untouched. So then I focused on the overprint and checked every detail, measured the angle, width, height and so on. The overprint is exactly as should be and it's visible embossed, so I'm sure that is not a photocopy, it was made by printing plate.
Then I searched Internet and found this: Agramer 10 Ab

An Agramer 10 Ab version not described in basic Michel Deutschland-Katalog (maybe is in Michel-Deutschland-Spezial-Katalog Band 1, but I don't have it). Dark blue overprint same as on my stamp, perforated and the most important thing: This is "Platte I". Everything fits well. The only thing I don't know, why Richter sign is in this position?

PS. If it's forged, it's a masterpiece.

Has anyone have MICHEL Deutschland Spezial Katalog Band 1 or MICHEL Deutsche Feldpost Katalog 1937-1945 and can confirm it? What is the the calatog value of this stamp?

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 MiNr. 2A and MiNr. 10A putted togheter.jpg (167.51 KByte | 10 mal heruntergeladen | 1.64 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 The Gum.jpg (185.9 KByte | 14 mal heruntergeladen | 2.54 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Overprint Zoom.jpg (206.47 KByte | 17 mal heruntergeladen | 3.43 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Richter Zoom.jpg (55.44 KByte | 10 mal heruntergeladen | 554.43 KByte Traffic)

23.10.11, 11:22:15

Claus Petry

(BPP-Mitglied)

Hallo philnum,

der Link zu Spink Galleries ist etwas unglücklich, da es sich hier sicher um eine 10Ad und nicht um eine 10Aa handelt...

Hinsichtlich des Winkels und der Aufdruckmerkmale der Platte I/1 greift dieser Verweis natürlich trotzdem...

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Hamburg!
23.10.11, 15:41:35

Claus Petry

(BPP-Mitglied)

Hello doder!

Three explanations possible:

-Perforation forgery
-Overprint forgery
-Genuine and from Plate II but with spearshead ink smear on the stamp missing

Sincerly silberbub
23.10.11, 15:47:53

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 23.10.11, 16:00:49

Zitat von silberbub:
Hello doder!

Three explanations possible:

-Perforation forgery
-Overprint forgery
-Genuine and from Plate II but with spearshead ink smear on the stamp missing

Sincerly silberbub


About first two explanations I made a small investigation and wrote it above. In my opinion possibilities for this is near 0. About third explanation I don't think is this a Platte II. It couldn't be.

And what about this Agramer 10 Ab version described in Felzmann auction?
23.10.11, 15:59:30

Claus Petry

(BPP-Mitglied)

It would be hepful if you would send a really good scan (1200 dpi-only overprint)....
Why couldn´t it be a Plate II???
Sincerly silberbub
23.10.11, 19:55:43

Claus Petry

(BPP-Mitglied)

OK, i forgot something...
Did you also check the length of the overprint?
Is it possible that the upper part of the overprint "T" is pressed a little bit in the paper on the reverse (gum side)???
23.10.11, 20:00:34

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 24.10.11, 00:31:42

Zitat von silberbub:
OK, i forgot something...
Did you also check the length of the overprint?
Is it possible that the upper part of the overprint "T" is pressed a little bit in the paper on the reverse (gum side)???


Yes, I've checked it and compared with rouletted stamp Agramer 10 BbI signed by Petry BPP freuen it's the same. From upper left corner of letter "I" to upper right corner of letter "T" is 26 mm. About letters pressed in the paper, I'm confirming this. I took also a photo to prove it. Especially the upper part of letter T is pressed harder, I've checked it against the light and saw something like a small dot.

PS. I thought that Platte II should have this small line / strip on the lower right corner near "T" letter and any other overprint without it is Platte I.

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Letters Pressed in The Paper.jpg (177.15 KByte | 26 mal heruntergeladen | 4.5 MByte Traffic)

23.10.11, 23:11:18

Claus Petry

(BPP-Mitglied)

Hello doder,

if the overprint length is 26mm (exactly 25,9mm) it is the Plate II with the missing spearshead ink, quite scarce, only known from 7 field positions of the sheet of 100 stamps.

The signed Plate Ib must have more than 26mm (about 26,4 to 26,6mm).

The pressed part of the "T" in the paper (small dot) is anyway a clear sign for a plate II....

Sincerly silberbub
24.10.11, 00:40:28

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 30.01.12, 18:08:05

Thank you for your answer. You have right, I wasn't very accurate the lengh is exactly 25,9 mm. Here for everyone interested is a full resolution scan of this stamp 4800 DPI (compressed to 500 kb).

Zitat von Claus Petry:
Hello doder,

if the overprint length is 26mm (exactly 25,9mm) it is the Plate II with the missing spearshead ink, quite scarce, only known from 7 field positions of the sheet of 100 stamps.

The signed Plate Ib must have more than 26mm (about 26,4 to 26,6mm).

The pressed part of the "T" in the paper (small dot) is anyway a clear sign for a plate II....

Sincerly silberbub
Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Agramer 10 Ab.jpg (468.95 KByte | 28 mal heruntergeladen | 12.82 MByte Traffic)

30.01.12, 17:46:00
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